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Jane Doe
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Those are NOT Klingons! Empty Those are NOT Klingons!

on Sat 17 Nov - 1:01
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Anyone seen Star Trek Discovery? Well, I found it on Putlocker the other day and was mortified. What the fuck have they done?! As a life-long fan of Star Trek, having religiously followed TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise... damn, they screwed up big time. First off, we have a first officer who is a human woman, adoptive daughter of Sarek (who btw, didn't even get along that well with his biological kids Spock and Sybok) and her name is MICHAEL, yes, Michael. Why the male name? Seriously, Star Trek has plenty of strong female characters in positions of authority, Vice Admiral Nachiev, Kathryn Janway...etc. Giving her a male name does NOT give her authority in a universe where women already have equal rights.

Then I saw the Klingons, no, not like Worf, Martok, Gowron...etc, but these strange creatures:
Those are NOT Klingons! Star-trek-discovery-trailer-klingon-750x480

Sorry, Klingons don't have metalic skin, and they have copious amounts of curly/wavy hair, THIS is a Klingon:
Those are NOT Klingons! Martok

I almost couldn't bear to watch! What the fuck are they doing? Let's get back to roots. We don't need so much generic action like phaser fights and stuff, we need real content, the stuff that made star trek worth watching. Picard was no action packed macho man, but he was tough in his own way, yet at the same time he was softly spoken and well educated. He had WISDOM and he spoke it. He often spoke of the deeper truths of the human condition in a way that could NEVER be matched by what any character on Discovery has to offer. DS9 showcased the horrors of war and slavery, it showed a reluctant religious figure in the form of Ben Sisko. The most 'action' was an episode called 'The Siege of AR558', the episode had me in floods of tears, not because of the actions, but because of the emotions of the characters who were suffering the loss of comerades in the war (and Nog lost his leg because of a subspace mine)! It was not a 'just because' fight, it was a fight for the freedom of the entire alpha quadrant. Voyager had it's own great moments, and the real drama was again NOT phaser fights, but Janeway grapping with the morality of decisions along the way and her guilt over them all being stranded in the Delta Quadrant, she was a strong leader with a good moral compass and convictions. Johnathan Archer had less rules to work with, he did his best and took guidance from T'Pol. These series were great, better than great they were awesome, I loved each of them, I got to know the characters, their backstories, their motiations, hopes and dreams. I could empathize with those characters, but those of Discovery are so hollow, I can't do that. I don't see their individual personalities and quirks, I just see ACTION.

What the hell has been done to this once great franchise?

Tell me what you think.
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Those are NOT Klingons! Empty Re: Those are NOT Klingons!

on Sat 17 Nov - 2:46
Dad has very similar feelings about ST:D. I thought it was silly the character we are following is basically a mutineer who screwed up so badly she started a war between the Federation and Klingon Empire, not the way to get me endeared to the main character. I saw a few more episodes and you wont like what they did to the federation. For someone raised by Vulcans she has terrible logic. I think its funny Sarek gets along better with humans then he does his own Vulcan children. Wasn't he friends with Picard also?
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on Sat 17 Nov - 6:54
I've not seen the new show, because I've been told that it should have been named Star Trek SJW.

So man of the people making shows nowadays just want to make political propaganda.

No thanks.
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on Sat 17 Nov - 8:07
Jane Doe wrote:Anyone seen Star Trek Discovery? Well, I found it on Putlocker the other day and was mortified. What the fuck have they done?! As a life-long fan of Star Trek, having religiously followed TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise... damn, they screwed up big time. First off, we have a first officer who is a human woman, adoptive daughter of Sarek (who btw, didn't even get along that well with his biological kids Spock and Sybok) and her name is MICHAEL, yes, Michael. Why the male name? Seriously, Star Trek has plenty of strong female characters in positions of authority, Vice Admiral Nachiev, Kathryn Janway...etc. Giving her a male name does NOT give her authority in a universe where women already have equal rights.

Then I saw the Klingons, no, not like Worf, Martok, Gowron...etc, but these strange creatures:
Those are NOT Klingons! Star-trek-discovery-trailer-klingon-750x480

Sorry, Klingons don't have metalic skin, and they have copious amounts of curly/wavy hair, THIS is a Klingon:
Those are NOT Klingons! Martok

I almost couldn't bear to watch! What the fuck are they doing? Let's get back to roots. We don't need so much generic action like phaser fights and stuff, we need real content, the stuff that made star trek worth watching. Picard was no action packed macho man, but he was tough in his own way, yet at the same time he was softly spoken and well educated. He had WISDOM and he spoke it. He often spoke of the deeper truths of the human condition in a way that could NEVER be matched by what any character on Discovery has to offer. DS9 showcased the horrors of war and slavery, it showed a reluctant religious figure in the form of Ben Sisko. The most 'action' was an episode called 'The Siege of AR558', the episode had me in floods of tears, not because of the actions, but because of the emotions of the characters who were suffering the loss of comerades in the war (and Nog lost his leg because of a subspace mine)! It was not a 'just because' fight, it was a fight for the freedom of the entire alpha quadrant. Voyager had it's own great moments, and the real drama was again NOT phaser fights, but Janeway grapping with the morality of decisions along the way and her guilt over them all being stranded in the Delta Quadrant, she was a strong leader with a good moral compass and convictions. Johnathan Archer had less rules to work with, he did his best and took guidance from T'Pol. These series were great, better than great they were awesome, I loved each of them, I got to know the characters, their backstories, their motiations, hopes and dreams. I could empathize with those characters, but those of Discovery are so hollow, I can't do that. I don't see their individual personalities and quirks, I just see ACTION.

What the hell has been done to this once great franchise?

Tell me what you think.
It reminds me more of Abrahams Star Trek then classic trek for sure. Its "edgy and sexy" like everything else these days. They've stripped the federation of its values so they can tell another bleak cynical sci fi story. The hope and optimism of Star Trek is nowhere to be found in discovery. I was worried a bit too when I saw the klingon photos but I decided to give it a chance I think worse then the look is that it lacks the soul 9f star trek. We willsee what happens with the new picard series I hope its good. If you haven't heard Patrick stewart is reprising his role as Picard in a new show that will follow the captain post nemesis.

CelesChere wrote:Dad has very similar feelings about ST:D. I thought it was silly the character we are following is basically a mutineer who screwed up so badly she started a war between the Federation and Klingon Empire, not the way to get me endeared to the main character. I saw a few more episodes and you wont like what they did to the federation. For someone raised by Vulcans she has terrible logic. I think its funny Sarek gets along better with humans then he does his own Vulcan children. Wasn't he friends with Picard also?
yes you summoned me. I wouldn't say they were particularly close. Sarek showed up on tng twice and Picard remarked he had met Sarek once before briefly. Picard mind melded with Sarek once and later melded with Spock who had never mind melded with his father.

OtherHans wrote:I've not seen the new show, because I've been told that it should have been named Star Trek SJW.

So man of the people making shows nowadays just want to make political propaganda.  

No thanks.
I mean... thats always been Star Trek. Star Trek has always championed diversity, civil rights, equality and has always been a political commentary. The first Star Trek was incredibly progressive for its day with the first truly diverse cast on prime time tv. In tng the federation is a socialist utopia the ferengi are a condemnation of capitalism and tng dealt with gender identity in a controversial ep8sode well ahead of its time. Ds9 dealt heavily with the line between terrorism and freedom fighter. During the occupation were Bajorans just religious fanatical terrorists or people doing anything they could to resist a brutal occupation? A strong african american lead an african american man who was a scientist father and leader. Voyager is still one of the most feminist shows ever which is one of the first and only shows that manages to pass the bechdel test 97% of its episodes it features multiple strong female peads in science and techinical roles. If your bothered by sjw then i would suggest skipping all of star trek because star trek has always been about a future free of racial tension and capitalist greed.
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on Sat 17 Nov - 18:54
I feel like this is what they do to everything that was successful, because they don't want to take chances on new things... they did this with Star Wars, and The Hobbit... just taking the original success of a series or book series and being lazy with it and not caring how they affect the lore of the original. and favoring Action over substance. I haven't watched Star Trek yet but it's been on my list of things to watch and I was looking forward to going back and looking at those old early episodes and just watching it properly like that. Although I haven't watched either the new or the old ones, I can totally understand where you're coming from, Jane.
I have these fears in my head that someday they're going to do this same thing with Lord of the Rings, and it bothers me so much so I try not to think about it... LOTR was what I grew up on in my teens- it was perfect the way it was... I have a fear in the back of my mind that they're going to try to remake it or something, like they do with everything else.....
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on Sat 17 Nov - 23:08
I may sound really ignorant here, but what does SJW mean? I've seen it applied to ST:D before in youtube comments, but I have no idea what it means.

Celes, This version of Sarek is NOT the version we know and love from TOS and TNG. I can't speak much for TOS as I never watched much of it, but TNG I know every episode. Picard once melded with Sarak on his final mission, to give him the mental stability he needed to complete the mission. He had many regrets over arguments he had had with Spock which had caused them to be astranged. Vulcans have strong feelings, they just bury them deeply, and when a Vulcan is of advanced age, it can be the case that he or she loses control. It is clear that he always had a soft spot for humans, after all, his first wife, Amanda, was human, and she had the two children Spock and Sybok. He later married another human, Perrin, who we see in TNG when Sarek is approaching his final years and on the afforementioned diplomatic mission.

On the whole progressive thing, yes, Star Trek has always been progressive, but there are hard limits on how much a show can preach before it becomes a propaganda piece. Classic Star Trek is an exploration of issues, where all sides can be seen and discussed, it's an open forum. You can watch an episode and feel that you can agree or disagree with what was done, but at least it got you thinking, at least you have the chance to UNDERSTAND all sides of an argument. None of this is present in the new series. Classic trek has characters that you can identify with, so you can understand their choice even if you disagree with it. I just don't understand how the producers think that a franchice which had been dependant on the viewers getting to know and love the characters can survive on the characters that appear more fictional that a holodeck character.

Oh, and yes, Picard is making a comeback, I did hear about that. Seriously, I hope that the producers keep him true to his old self, we need Jean-Luc Picard right now, his common sense, his calm demeanour, his way of looking at life. I'd take one Picard over 1000 discovery characters, including the girl called Michael... What's with that anyway? I have no problem with exploring gender issues, but she isn't a trans character or have any explanation as to why... we have no idea why she is called Michael.
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on Sun 18 Nov - 0:11
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SJW= Social Justice Warrior. It's a pejorative and derogatory term used mostly by racists and bigots and people sick of hearing about inclusion and diversity to dismiss people fighting for equality and inclusion. I guess the fact that ST:D features a gay male couple and a black female lead is a terrible sin to the bigots.
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on Sun 18 Nov - 4:23
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CelesChere wrote:SJW= Social Justice Warrior. It's a pejorative and derogatory term used mostly by racists and bigots and people sick of hearing about inclusion and diversity to dismiss people fighting for equality and inclusion. I guess the fact that ST:D features a gay male couple and a black female lead is a terrible sin to the bigots.

i couldn't have said it any better!

as for the klingons, there's a scene towards the end of the season 1 where ALL factions of the klingon empire are shown in the same room. most were there but some were there as a hologram. this is where the "24 klingon houses" meet. so i'm guessing some of the houses look like the klingons that we've come to know. also on star trek enterprise, they mention why the klingons from the original series look different compared to the movies and TNG. they pointed out how the klingons were experimenting with eugenics during the eugenic wars, thus the klingons with the ridges. if memory serves me right, worf says on DS9 how the klingons "don't talk about" the klingon eugenics wars because of what they perceive as a failure. this is in the ds9 episode where they go back in time and meet kirk during the tribbles episode. dax asks worf why the klingons look so different.

i can't believe i'm geeking out on star trek on this forum.
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on Sun 18 Nov - 4:28
forgot to add...IMO, the klingons in discovery are horrible and it feels like they're trying to go horror/HR giger with them. the lead, michael, has a weird walk that i just can't see past. notice it next time. i really can't stand michael and tilley but everyone else is pretty good and the stories are better than the latest movies.
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on Sun 18 Nov - 6:10
I have my issues with discovery but diversity isn't one of them. I have my issues with Burnham as well but her being a black female isn't one of them. Its that shes an idiot. Thats what  bothers me. She makes profoundly bad decisions for someone trained in logic by Vulcans. While I am not real keen on the makeup job they did with the Klingons I do like that the actors all frigging learned to speak Klingon for the role and they were really speaking Klingon in those scenes. I think they did a good job of representing Klingon culture even if the makeup and costumes weren't great. What other girls think Picard is a sexy sexy man?
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on Sun 18 Nov - 6:45
i agree about michael. i just gave up on the character doing anything logical so i just look past her scenes/story. i sorta got used to the new klingons. i really like everyone else and how they can switch between the regular and mirror universes.

also...riker...with the beard Wink
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on Sun 18 Nov - 21:44
Diversity is good, but being preachy about said diversity whilst giving the show no substance is bad. DS9 got it right, the only human families in the series were the Siskos and the O'Briens, oh, and the genetically enhanced Julian Bashir, the doctor .Most of the characters were not humans. We had a Bajoran first officer, a shapeshifter security chief, A Ferengi who ran the bar, his brother was at first his employee but he went on to help Starfleet as part of the engineering team and eventually became Grand Nagus, and Nog became the first Ferengi in Starfleet, we have Dax, the trill, Jadzia at first, then Ezri. We have Worf, a Klingon. Then there is Elim Garak, a Cardassian, a former Obsidian Order spy turned Starfleet informative. Each of these characters had their own depth and motives, they were well rounded characters who you could identify with. It is sad to think that there will never be another Elim Garak, Benjamin Sisko, Odo'Ital, Kira Nerys... we knew and loved those characters, we laughed and cried with them, we understood them. DS9 showed a beautiful diversity of alien cultures, even culures that clashed, but they had a strong sense of right and wrong. Watch 'In the Pale Moonlight' and you can see the morally grey actions of Sisko and Garak as they brought the Romulans into the Dominion War, they broke the rules to save the Alpha Quadrant. Sisko said "I lied, I cheated, I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men, I am an accessory to murder, but the most damning thing of all is that I think I can live with it, so I will learn to live with it. Computer, erase that entire personal log." Garak had said ""If it soothes your conscience, you may have just saved the entire alpha quadrant and all it cost is the life of one Romulan Senator, one criminal, and the self respect of one Starfleet office, I don't know about you, but I call THAT a bargain." Garak had committed the murder, but it had been necessary to save so many others. He was the good guy with a dark past,
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on Mon 19 Nov - 3:01
PArt of the reason for all the changes to the look, Klingons, ship design general tone, is because the split between paramount and CBS. Short version one company own the right to the tv show and the other the movies, but it is more complex since the rights to make tv show also go with the J J Abrams films so the show has to look more like J J films no matter what they say about it being in the prime time line.

Yes all the changes make the show really not look or feel like star trek, But you want to watch a new star trek show try Star Trek The Orville.
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on Fri 22 Feb - 4:31
So season 2 is up now and I've heard its amore of a return to classic trek form then the previous season. We haven't watched it yet. Also the new captain is Captain Pike.
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on Fri 22 Feb - 5:47
season 2 is very good. so much better than season 1. feels like actual star trek. also the new captain pike is great and super hot Smile
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on Fri 22 Feb - 5:49
kelsey wrote:season 2 is very good. so much better than season 1. feels like actual star trek. also the new captain pike is great and super hot Smile
We're planning on getting all access when the picard show comes on then we will binge all of discovery at once.
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