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Introduction - Question Regarding Loss of Loved One

on Wed 13 Jul - 23:53
I found the original Kindred Spirits Forum about a month ago and posted this introduction/question there and received a note directing me to this "new and improved" forum. Thank you, to the moderators for making this site possible. You have no idea what an incredible service you're providing.

How incredible to find this site and to realize that there is, indeed, a large community of us who have positive experiences with cosanguinary relationships. For years I assumed we were the only ones, constantly maintaining the facade of "normalcy" for everyone around us and unable to express the true nature of our love for one another except when we were alone. While I appreciate the depths of uncertainy, questioning, guilt, shame, the need for secrecy we've all had to endure, what was made even difficult in my/our situation is that we had to navigate through the complex waters of being both closeted gay men who became a couple while also remaining father and son.

It's been just over ten years since I lost the love of my life. I could only mourn him in public as his son instead of his partner and lover of 24 years. Even now, I imagine he's going to walk in the door, calling out for me, that big smile of excitement and anticipation on his face and yet I've found so very few people that can understand both what we had and the difficulties of living without that.

I'm especially interested in hearing how others have coped with either the death or the end of a long-term relationship like ours.
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Re: Introduction - Question Regarding Loss of Loved One

on Thu 14 Jul - 0:59
I am truly sorry for your loss.....I can't even imagine. You are in my thoughts *hugs*
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Re: Introduction - Question Regarding Loss of Loved One

on Thu 14 Jul - 1:34
Welcome, I've upgraded your account so you can see and participate in discussions on all of the hidden forums. I set up this newest incarnation of Kindred Spirits because the old provider was unreliable and their servers had crashed for a month, an ally friend gave me the link to this forum provider which also has servers in France (where incest is not illegal) so this location made perfect sense.

We actually do more than just run this forum, although this is certainly a very beneficial part of it. Some of the admins here are also activists for the rights of incest couples, mainly Full Marriage Equality, Cristina Shy and myself, I run the consanguinamory blog. We won't rest until we get full equality for everyone.

Wow.... I really do feel for you and I hope that this forum helps. That you're still feeling like this after ten years really shows how strong your love was for each other. Not being able to properly grieve for him as a partner as well must be just awful, it's not the kind of thing you can discuss with other relatives or your friends, even if they are accepting of the fact that you're gay most people don't accept or understand incest yet. You're amongst friends here so you can talk about it with us and nobody will judge.

The bond consanguinamory creates is termed 'double-love' because you have a romantic relationship in addition to the usual family love, and it creates a bond that is much stronger and more intense than either form of love on it's own. It is very difficult for a lot of people who are not wired up this way to understand why those roles are not in conflict, and yet for us they seamlessly melt into each other for much of the time. It just works.

I do understand what it's like to try to live without having a long term family lover with you... I was with my dad for eight years on and off, he didn't die but he ended our relationship out of fear we would be caught and because he never fully accepted this part of his sexual identity. Actually we're still close as friends but we're no longer involved. Nearly six years and two failed relationships later I still love him more than I've loved any other man. It doesn't just go away, it's something we must live with.

My personal way of coping is to accept it and to throw myself into activism to ensure other couples in the future won't have to go through the secret keeping, the self-doubt and the worries that we've all had to endure. Everyone deals with both grieving the loss of a loved one and relationship breakdowns differently, what's right for one person isn't necessarily right for another so it is really what you feel is best for you and helps you the most.

We look forward to hearing more from you Smile
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Re: Introduction - Question Regarding Loss of Loved One

on Thu 14 Jul - 3:09
I wanted you both -- anastasia_blues and Jane Doe - to know how much your words have touched me. Not just the empathy and understanding you have directly conveyed but the complete and total acceptance, without any judgement whatsoever, for the love Dad and I shared. For a very long time I've searched for that level of understanding and I'm both laughing and crying as I write this.

You have so aptly captured what we had, something that has been nearly impossible to convey to others... the love we had as father/son did meld and flowed back and forth throughout the love we had as two men. The two feelings were inextricable and for us something we openly acknowledged and discussed. Dad was an attorney and fully aware of the potential risks we ran -- the possibility of blackmail, of our lives and careers being destroyed by those who truly could not understand -- and we established rules to shield and protect both each other and ourselves as a couple. While difficult and frustrating at times, especially being unable to openly express the affection and bond we had in front of others, it was a price we willingly paid.

To clarify and so that there's no possibility of mistaking that this was a decision we made mutually, I was a college sophomore and a fully grown man when the two of us cried in one another's arms one afternoon and spoke honestly and openly to one another for the first time. It was so hard for both of us to admit what we felt, what we'd felt for some time and how much we had fought against it for so long. The initial disbelief at what the other was saying and the pure relief at finally being heard and accepted by the other is something that I suspect others here understand so well. I look forward to sharing and talking with others about this "double love" we have experienced.



.
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Re: Introduction - Question Regarding Loss of Loved One

on Thu 14 Jul - 4:37
I am very close with my father. He was my hero growing up, and I still admire him greatly. He's had my back more times than I can count, and I've had his back all the same. I love him with all my heart, but it's just familial love. I suspect that my father is bisexual (he's never admitted it, but I've seen clues), however I'm definitely heterosexual, so there was never any chance of a consanguineous relationship. Had I been bisexual or gay, who knows?

I would die for my dad, and he would for me, and yet I doubt what we feel comes even close to what you and your dad had. It's maddening that people like you and your father had to hide for something that hurts no one. You can't even inbreed with him, so there is no argument against it that stands on its own weight.

I remember speaking out for gay rights back in the day when those things were quite taboo roughly 15 years ago. I think all the same arguments that supported gay rights also support your relationship, so I'm 100% behind you.

Them queers are alright, and consang queers are great, too. Wink Welcome!
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Re: Introduction - Question Regarding Loss of Loved One

on Thu 14 Jul - 4:55
hello, and i welcome you to our community. I have not had to bear the pain of my brother dying yet. But I have lost many, and I feel your pain. Loss is loss after all. I do not speak much of the horrors in my life, but I feel compelled so share with you. I am 37 years old. And I have been pregnant 4 times. All 4 were alive and healthy inside me, and they all died full term during the birth. The doctors never new why until i saw a geneticist last week who found that I am a Lupus carrier, which complicated the placenta each time i was pregnant. I mourn every one of them. Named them, held them before having them cremated, and I carry their ashes everywhere I move to. I know that giving birth to 4 healthy but dead babies is not the same, but I also feel your pain. Their birthdays and death days are the hardest for me and I suffer deep depression during those times. I sometimes wish for death so that I can be with them again. I understand how hard it is to endure such pain and still have to force myself to go on in this life. And I know that you probably have similar feelings about your dad. If you ever feel the need to vent about loss or need someone to share the good times you hold dear to you from when you were together, my door is always open to you. you need only message me and I will give you my full attention. My condolences on your loss and you are in my thoughts and prayers as you go through life living with your loss. Many hugs to you, Cristina.
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Re: Introduction - Question Regarding Loss of Loved One

on Thu 14 Jul - 6:04
Welcome and you have my sympathies on your loss.
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Re: Introduction - Question Regarding Loss of Loved One

on Thu 14 Jul - 11:04
TBD1982 wrote:I wanted you both -- anastasia_blues and Jane Doe - to know how much your words have touched me.  Not just the empathy and understanding you have directly conveyed but the complete and total acceptance, without any judgement whatsoever, for the love Dad and I shared.  For a very long time I've searched for that level of understanding and I'm both laughing and crying as I write this.

You have so aptly captured what we had, something that has been nearly impossible to convey to others... the love we had as father/son did meld and flowed back and forth throughout the love we had as two men.  The two feelings were inextricable and for us something we openly acknowledged and discussed.  Dad was an attorney and fully aware of the potential risks we ran -- the possibility of blackmail, of our lives and careers being destroyed by those who truly could not understand -- and we established rules to shield and protect both each other and ourselves as a couple.  While difficult and frustrating at times, especially being unable to openly express the affection and bond we had in front of others, it was a price we willingly paid.  

To clarify and so that there's no possibility of mistaking that this was a decision we made mutually, I was a college sophomore and a fully grown man when the two of us cried in one another's arms one afternoon and spoke honestly and openly to one another for the first time.  It was so hard for both of us to admit what we felt, what we'd felt for some time and how much we had fought against it for so long.  The initial disbelief at what the other was saying and the pure relief at finally being heard and accepted by the other is something that I suspect others here understand so well.  I look forward to sharing and talking with others about this "double love" we have experienced.  

Double love is something that has to be experienced before it can be properly and fully understood, it's something unique to consanguinamorous people that regulars haven't really got a reference for, that's why they don't see how and why it works. It would be nice if the world could get it intellectually even if they cannot really understand the emotions involved. It's this fundamental lack of understanding that leads to the prejudice we face, nature abhors a vacuum, and when there is a gap in actual knowledge people will fill it with whatever is at hand. In the case of incest, they fill that knowledge gap with prejudices and misinformation from mainstream society. This leads to a set of incorrect assumptions about our people and laws based around those misunderstandings. The result of this is a deeply incestophobic society. This is the reason education is so important and is part of what our websites are all about. Prejudices can only really be challenged in light of new and accurate information, one day everyone will realize that this form of prejudice is every bit as wrong and as disgusting as homophobia is. Of course there will always be diehard haters, but they will become a minority.

I'm sure pretty much everyone here will understand the stress of having to 'act normal' for everyone elses benefit, it's frustrating and annoying that it's even necessary, and yet it's what most of us have had to do in order to stay out of jail. Many people also experience other relatives and friends trying to set them up on dates that they don't want, which is an annoyance at best. All these little things we have to cope with in order to maintain our secrets can be quite a burden sometimes, and despite these drawbacks our relationships are so worth it and so fulfilling. It's a testament to the strength of consanguinamory that our relationships often can and do last despite the enormous opposition to them.

You'll make many friends here, you aren't alone any more Smile
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Re: Introduction - Question Regarding Loss of Loved One

on Mon 18 Jul - 7:36
I am so sorry for your loss. Welcome. As you can see you are not alone. My son and I have been together for almost two years now. Our anniversary is the 21st of this month. We have had so many struggles, but we have weathered and are now closer than ever. We came to the realization that we can't choose to feel any other way then we do, and as that is the case-we are bonded in this double love for life. These feelings will never go away and so, because of the depth of our love and its double nature, we have the responsibility to be the best person we can for the other and be as loving and supportive as we can, Even we we don't think we can, especially when we don't think we can.

He is the love of my life and I am his. We have a 20 year age difference between us and I worry so much about what will happen when I am gone. I have cancer and this is very real for us. It has been a huge burden for him. He has no one he can talk to about his fears and concerns and I fear that when I am gone that this burden will be even greater for him. I fear the pain of the loneliness that will engulf him. I only hope I can help to prepare him for that loss without adversely impacting how good things are now.

When I am gone~
I hope he will know he was loved more than I ever knew I was capable of loving. I hope he will know that he is the most wonderful man in the world, flaws and all-if not in truth (there are many amazing people in the world), he was to me. And that is something not many people ever get to experience. As hard as this life of secrecy and guilt and multilayered feelings that are both confusing and marvelous, it is worth it. Ive been alive for 43 years and now I realize how much of life I missed out on because I didn't know how real life could be. I had never been loved with the adoration of a child for his mother and the lust brought on by the strange chemistry that occurs with such frightening intensity. The closeness of parent and child, the feeling of safety, of knowing without a doubt that no matter what, its ok and you are loved, you will always be loved and it will be unlike anything else. It is unlike anything else, there is no parallel. I am so grateful we found love. it is hard but it is worth it. I want him to feel safe and loved and to find his peace whether I am a part of it or not. I am grateful for you that you had this with your dad.

I don't even know you, but have a glimpse of you through your writing. I want the same for you. I really do. You deserve it. You were so lucky to have so many years with a man like your dad, a man that gave everything he had to give to you, his love. Your loss must be profound. I grieve with you.

As Jane said, you aren't alone anymore.
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Re: Introduction - Question Regarding Loss of Loved One

on Mon 18 Jul - 15:38
I know this is off topic, but I wanted to send my condolences to motherson. First you deal with addiction, and now cancer? When it rains, it pours. Sad

As someone who has had family members struggle with addiction and cancer, I can relate to some degree. I truly hope things work out for you, because you two have enough difficulties as it is.
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Re: Introduction - Question Regarding Loss of Loved One

on Thu 11 Aug - 23:22
my condolences for your loss; it's a deep one and it doesn't get any easier. There will always be those moments when you feel almost sure that he'll walk through the door, or that you'll see him sleeping in on the weekends, or the sound of his voice in the morning and night.
I am glad that you had many precious memories with him.
apologies for such a late post, but it felt like it needed posting
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