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Unowen17
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on Tue 26 Nov - 9:51
Hi, all,

There's a new article on vice.com that is surprisingly sympathetic and sensitive to brother-sister relationships. I'm wondering how the members would feel about taking an interview with someone who has proved himself/herself (at least somewhat) trustworthy by publishing a positive article on consang relationships.

The issue of identifying to an author has always been a stumbling block in the past, but maybe it needn't be, with the right author.

If you'd like to look at the article, it's here: https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/8xwp3a/brother-sister-incest-uk

Best,
UN

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AbeSarah
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on Tue 26 Nov - 23:42
The writer seems quite bigoted still. Needs educating. "Parental/child incest seems – rightly – to be universally viewed as clear-cut abuse, not least because the unequal power dynamic in a parent/child relationship prohibits any solid argument of consent."

Universally? Did the French parliament not recently vote to keep adult consensual incest perfectly legal? Even the map provided with the story to show where sibling incest is legal omits more than half the world, and makes not mention of all the countries where ACI is legal.

The poor thing is confused and tries to confuse others i.e. "While gathering data on the more "consensual" end of the incest spectrum hasn't happened anywhere globally, the statistics on incest are pretty startling. In the USA in the 1990s it was estimated that 100,000 to 1 million cases of incest occurred annually. The scale of global incest varies depending on the figures you look at – mostly because the highly private nature of the phenomenon obscures complete accuracy – but it is thought that incest happens to somewhere between 2 percent to 10 to 20 percent of the population. In Brazil, the prevalence of incest estimates range widely, from 0.05 percent to 21 percent."

She doesn't mention the multiplicity of meaning and definitions ( not ordinary ambiguity) of the word 'incest'
Worst of all she doesn't mention human rights, the United Nations Declaration of or anything about the right of CIAO people being trampled on in majority of countries.

It is a furphy to suggest that there is no power dynamic going on in sibling relationships, even between twins.
As someone commented recently 'love is like a war, easy to start, hard to end, impossible to forget.'

She says " Grace and Adam eschew friends, outsiders, and most interests because they fear being found out and driven out, but that's the price they have to pay for breaking such a transgressive taboo.
In fact, she mentions 'taboo' three times but she never mentions 'human rights' jail prison 1908 (year of UK's incest law) law homosexuality (or other taboos that were no criminalized or have been decriminalized) or any of the 40 or so states where ACI is legal. To me, she seems to be damning us with faint praise. That is, I think she is a very good writer in terms of working for our enemy.
She ends with a quote from an unnamed Oxford psychology professor (supposedly to give extra weight to her less than half-hearted support for our cause)..who seems to advise us that the normal thing to so in our (British) society is to " treat these people like pariahs and drive them out with literal and metaphorical pitchforks like we did in the Dark Ages." She definitey sounds like someone who is more comfortable sitting on the fence than in taking a principled position ( on our side).
Unowen17
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on Wed 27 Nov - 10:42

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OtherHans
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on Thu 28 Nov - 3:54
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I enjoyed reading about the relationship between Anna and Stephen.

So much of what gets posted online is filled with ambivalence, anxiety, or shame. It was refreshing to read about siblings whose relationship filled them with joy instead of angst or guilt.
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AbeSarah
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on Thu 28 Nov - 23:10
UN. You are being silly.  OK if my critique /rave about the nicely written essay was 'negative waves'  then this forum is not for me.

Someone has to keep it real, but if you want it to be  just  playing happy famiies, smiley faces, like on the cookery shows, with  nil intellectual content or debate... well, count me out. 
 I thought  the article was practically 'click bait' as it served no purpose ( not  providing the reader with any new or cutting-edge information or giving them  a sense that the author had done any sort of analysis and had reached a meaningful and accurate conclusion (  such as some sort of change in the law might be appropriate   and that something is very  wrong in a society full of bigotry and incestophobia and that much  education and reforming of attitudes is necessary. 'Ah but it is an ill wind that  blows nobody any good.'  In other words, using the  vernacular, it was a half-arsed article. (And best thing about it was that it didn't use the term 'Westermark effect' 

By the way, this  wikipedia article on the Westermark  effect is interesting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect

We know that  the divorce rate among CIAO /consangs is  very low, about zero percent while conventional marriages that end in  divorce  are about  50 percent.
Is this because consangs /CIAOs know they can never be divorced or because conventionals just are never that attracted to each other that they can last the distance?  And if people are forced together and torn apart by social and biological pressures beyond their control and understanding, then it does  somewhat  imply that CIAO people ( and all the ohers who are charged with victimless crimes)  are victims of the law and society. But I am making negative  waves again. Shame on me!
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