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Hello - Introduction

on Thu 25 Aug - 22:04
Hi everyone, I'm Amanda. I am 27 and work as a staff attorney for a mid-size corporation. My twin brother (fraternal) and I have had a strong, satisfying consensual relationship since early in our undergraduate college years. We live and work in different states but manage to schedule private time together four or five times a year. We both date others as well, though only casually.

I have two questions to pose to your group. Should we end our consensual relationship if one of us enters a serious relationship with another person? Also, is it possible to sustain a consensual relationship with multiple family members?

Thank you in advance for your feedback. We are so pleased to have found your group!

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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Thu 25 Aug - 22:54
Welcome to the forums Amanda, I've upgraded your account so you can access all areas now.

So, to your questions:

Amandab wrote:Should we end our consensual relationship if one of us enters a serious relationship with another person?

If the other person does not know about your brother.... yes. Technically you would be cheating on the other person with your brother, and it's never good to go behind somebody's back. However, should you find somebody who is open minded enough that you could tell him about your brother, say somebody you had an open relationship with from the start, then you could possibly sustain both relationships. The issue here is not that you'd be seeing two men, but whether they both know about each other and are okay with it.

Ultimately you'd both have to decide for yourselves what is best. For instance, are you both dating others because you live so far apart and see so little of each other? Would that be different if you lived closer together or even shared a house? What do you want out of the relationship that you and your brother share? It it something that's just for fun, or are you or have you been serious about each other? Answering these questions will help to give you some clue as to how to approach the dating others part. If you date others just for fun and are serious with your brother, then be honest with those others from the outset (obviously not about your brother, but about the wanting a casual relationship part). If you and your brother are just casual and you meet somebody else that you want to commit to and who expects monogamy then of course you'd have to finish with your brother.

Amandab wrote:Also, is it possible to sustain a consensual relationship with multiple family members?

Some people here are in just that situation, and they manage to have healthy polyamorous relationships with their relatives. Just like with unrelated poly arrangements, it depends on the people involved to make it work well and to be open and honest with each other. So yes, it is possible. Is this something you're considering or just hypothetical?

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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Fri 26 Aug - 0:57
amandab wrote:My twin brother (fraternal) and I have had a strong, satisfying consensual relationship since early in our undergraduate college years. We live and work in different states but manage to schedule private time together four or five times a year.

amandab wrote:We both date others as well, though only casually.

amandab wrote:Should we end our consensual relationship if one of us enters a serious relationship with another person?

I dont want be rude, but if you and your brother-twin have so strong, deep etc. relationship, why you guys are dating with others ? and why you think about ending this relationship (if its so good) for somebody else ?
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Fri 26 Aug - 1:38
bratrstvoNODKane, I think she was asking hypothetically. Also, if she is polyamorous then she will want to date more than one person.
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Fri 26 Aug - 3:17
Amandab,

Congrats on what you share with your brother.

I'm polyamorous and I can assure you it is possible for some people to simultaneously have two satisfying relationships, whatever forms they take. I don't recommend cheating, which means deception; it isn't cheating to have multiple lovers if no agreement with anyone is being violated. Perhaps in a polyamory forum or a Facebook group, you can find someone who is either willing to accept that they will not know who their metamour (your other lover) is, or is open minded enough to know and accept the situation.

Yes, it is possible for ongoing polyamory to exist within a consanguinamorous context or with multiple family members. I have witnessed this and know of vsrious such situations.

Since you have access to the other parts of the forum now, I hope you will find them helpful. Please feel free to send me a private message as well. While there are polyamorous people here, the forum is neither for or against such relationships. The main focus is in consanguinamory.
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Fri 26 Aug - 13:57
Thank you all for your feedback. My brother and I are an example of how opposites attract. I am confident, high energy and driven, all qualities required for a female attorney in the corporate world. My brother is a college teacher and doctoral student. He nourishes the human side of me and I encourage his rational side. My question about what you call polyamourous relations among family members is more than theoretical. My father is a successful attorney for a major corporation. He has been my mentor since high school and I have followed his career path. We are both tall and trim and athletic and have the same drive. My work frequently takes me to the city where he resides and when possible we meet for dinner. Over the last six months, due to flight delays or other last minute changes in meeting plans, it has been convenient for me to stay over at his apartment. During those few times, we have shared a surprising and delightful intimate experience. In truth, I have felt an attraction to him since my early teens, but always kept those feelings to myself. My brother and I are completely honest with each other. He is completely aware and accepting of the new relationship I have with our father. He has shared with me as well that our Mother who lives in a community adjacent to him will infrequently seek him out for comfort. Like my Father and me, my brother and Mother are very much alike. She studied the classics and taught briefly prior to raising her children. I understand and accept his need for a softer, gentler intimate experience along side everything that we share. I believe I have my answer from your comments, but would appreciate further comments and feedback.
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Fri 26 Aug - 14:20
Well, from the sounds of things, since the four of you are all open and honest with each other, and you're all happy with the arrangement, then there is no reason why it shouldn't continue for as long as you all remain happy with it. When I responded to your original post it sounded like you were on about you both dating regulars who you'd have to keep in the dark, so sorry if I misunderstood. Congrats to you and your brother on your relationships with your parents!
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Fri 26 Aug - 16:49
It feels like a stable tetrad amandab. One further note, if you will, is to make sure that your father and mother are also aware of each other's relationships. While it feels likely that they already do, it seemed prudent to make a reference of it.
Besides that, it is good to see a happy relationship. Also, congratulations on your success in corporate law; it's no small accomplishment.
Oh, and welcome to the forums!
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Fri 26 Aug - 21:56
This isn't the first time I've heard of a situation like this. There are others who are pretty much in the same boat.
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Sat 27 Aug - 12:11
Thank you all for your continued feedback! My parents divorced more than a dozen years ago and don't communicate and live in different states. My Mother suffers from depression and I will have to chose carefully a time to tell her about my new relationship with my Father. She of course, knows and accepts my relationship with my brother. Interesting, perhaps only for research purposes, I have a younger set of identical twin sisters. They have been intimate since early childhood, and at 23, are an open gay couple. Their physical features and character traits are very similar to my Father's and mine. They know of and celebrate the relationship that my brother and I share and will likely be pleased to learn of my new closeness to our Father.

As you can see, we all move in different circles. One binding factor that brings us to together is the lake house that has been in our family for several generations. We all share time at the lake house and it has become my responsibility to schedule non-conflicting time for everyone to share our all season retreat.

Thanks!

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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Sat 27 Aug - 13:37
Wow, it sounds like it runs in your family. It would be interesting to know why consanguinamory appear so prevalently in some families and yet in others it is just one couple. We just don't know yet whether there is a genetic component which accounts for the absence of the Westermarck effect.
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Sat 27 Aug - 17:10
Did not know about the Westermarck effect, so I researched it. Interesting. Wondering in our cases how much we are affected by an attraction to similar physical characteristics and personality traits. Except for my Mother because of her depression, we seem to be thriving in our relationships.
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Sun 28 Aug - 23:44
Jane Doe wrote:Wow, it sounds like it runs in your family. It would be interesting to know why consanguinamory appear so prevalently in some families and yet in others it is just one couple. We just don't know yet whether there is a genetic component which accounts for the absence of the Westermarck effect.

I suspect that like homosexuality, consanguinity is is likely dependent on both genetic and environmental factors. Studies will be needed to learn more, but unfortunately, we have to combat a lot of hate, bigotry and ignorance before those studies can happen.

EDIT: Also, welcome aboard. As you can see, I'm the mean, nasty one with no manners. Avoid me like the plague. Razz
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Mon 29 Aug - 0:42
Except for perhaps my Mother, we have no guilt about our relationships. As you know well, we protect our relationships in secrecy to prevent any adverse impact on our professional careers. I would be interested in feedback from others of you. Are your relationships open or kept in the dark too? We have a reunion of sorts planned at the lake house in early September where all of us will share our thoughts and feelings. Always a lively time!

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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Tue 30 Aug - 9:26
hi and welcome. everyone has already said everything I would say in answer to your questions. So again, welcome, you are among friends here.
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Sat 24 Sep - 21:15
Our delayed weekend at the Lakehouse is happening today and tomorrow! Our current relationships are: Amanda/brother, Amanda/Father, brother/Mother, sister/sister. I have not been intimate with my younger twin sisters or my Mother and have been curious for some time how satisfying that might be. My Dad and I have enjoyed our more recent relationship and I have encouraged him to consider spending private time with the twins alone or together. My brother seems quite happy with what he shares with me and our Mother. I have suggested to him that we should explore a relationship together with the twins. We are hoping to discuss the possibilities over the weekend. As a family, we are all college educated adult professionals and strong- willed individuals. All current relationships and any new relationships that are formed are completely consensual.
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Mon 3 Oct - 12:32
Some of you who read my last post likely laughed at my presumption and lack of maturity and experience for thinking that if one special relationship is good, several would be better. The results of our family weekend have made me stop and reconsider practically everything.

With the confidence I have in my successful career, I approached my younger twin sisters. My suggestion that we consider an intimate relationship angered and repulsed them! They told me they knew about our brother and me, didn't condone what we are doing, but accepted it as our choice. They declared that aside from some exploration as teens, they are hetrosexual and both had boyfriends! My brother pleaded with me not to approach our Mother because of her fragile state and was appalled to learn of my interest in women! My revelation has affected our relationship. Finally, my Father has not been returning my calls and sent me a text saying it probably was not a good idea for me to stay with him when Inam in his city on business. I realize now that I was merely a notch on his belt of conquest. So where does that leave me? Any advice?
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Mon 3 Oct - 18:55
I am sorry to hear of your recent troubles, Amanda.

The only advice I could give is to forget about romantic exchanges with the rest of the family and just focus on your brother. Your relationship with him is the longest and most well-established that you have, and it is accepted by the rest of the family. You are luckier than most. In time, try to reconnect with your other relatives and try to rebuild platonic relationships again. There is always the chance that they will still turn you away, but we will cross that bridge when we get to it.

Hope things improve for you in time. ^_^


Last edited by Sapphire on Tue 4 Oct - 22:49; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Tue 4 Oct - 12:56
Thanks for the advice! My Mother of course knows about my brother and me. After the weekend at the lake, I feel like I am in competition with my Mother for my brother's attention! My Mother is in her mid-fifties and is slim and attractive and "very satisfying" in bed according to my brother. I look much like her, and at 27, I am slim and athletic and pride myself on being an imaginative, attentive lover, but I seem to be losing the competition! I also received a text from my Father saying he wants to stay with me when he is in my city next week. I want to tell him no, but don't want to be left empty-handed, so to speak. Why does all this have to be so complicated?
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Tue 4 Oct - 23:43
All dating and sexual relationships are complicated, unfortunately, and those complications multiply with the number of lovers involved. ^_^;

Yeah, not a good idea to share lovers since this sort of thing tends to happen eventually; just like in everything else, someone somewhere is better than you at something, and an older woman would have experience well beyond your years. I don't say that to sound harsh, it is just a reality we have to live with in this world. ^_^;

But you have youth and vitality on your side, as well as a much longer standing relationship with your brother. Plus, didn't you mention that your mother was conflicted about her relationship with your brother? Maybe you could work that angle a little; you know, reassure him that, unlike your mother, you have nothing holding you back and you love him completely as both a lover and a brother. Don't try to trash your mother directly, he wouldn't appreciate that, but subtly plant the idea in his mind that you offer him something she cannot; that you accept him and your relationship for all that there is, and that you wish for nothing more than what you have with him. He is the calmer, softer type, right? He would likely appreciate that sort of thing. I know I would and I'm the calmer, softer type myself. ^_^; Just don't pile it all on him at once, get him in the proper mood first; build an atmosphere that would make him receptive to your words.

A neat psychological trick is to have things he likes and enjoys be around you, to be associated with you, and his affections of those things would subtly move onto you in his subconscious mind, which will grow his affections toward you over time. Have books and magazines he likes laying around where you are, play his favourite music in the rooms you are in, have him walk in on you watching his favourite films, have him catch you playing his favourite video games, offer to play his favourite board games with him, and you can do all these things and more when you are together with him as well.

You can also recreate particularly good memories you have of you and him together that you know are his favourite in order to create the same effect on him; the good feeling he has of those memories will be associated with you. If he's smart, he might pick up on what you are doing, but it hardly matters; as long as he is in such an environment, with all his favourite things surrounding you and not anywhere else, then it will slowly start to work on his subconscious over time and he wouldn't be able to stop himself.

These psychological tricks aren't anything underhanded, either. Marriage counsellors recommend struggling couples to do these sorts of things together, when they want to rekindle the flames of their affections for each other, because it works. It will take time to work, though. You will have to be patient, but it would be worth it.

As for your father, I would avoid that if I were you. Remember how he retreated you. Do you really want a repeat of that? He said it himself, it was a mistake; that is how he viewed your time together. Don't let him get away with that.

Anyway, that is as much as I can say about this. Of course, following my advice is entirely optional, and you know your brother better than I would, but that is what I would recommend based on what I have read here. Hope it helps. ^_^
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Wed 5 Oct - 10:21
Thank you for your long note! I am trying to understand the need I have for intimacy with my brother and Father. It would be so much easier and less complicated to seek out other relationships, but those have been so unsatisfying compared to what I have now. It's not just the sex, it's something much more, a driving need!
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Wed 5 Oct - 10:54
No problem, hun. ^_^

Hope things get better for you, and if you ever need to chat sometime, or just want someone to vent on, then you know where I am. ^_^
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Wed 5 Oct - 12:17
It is apparent that some people are consanguinamorous in the sense of "needing" that relationship in a way that relationships with others just won't do.

As far as sharing lovers, it is entirely possible for it to work out, depending on the people involved. Cheating isn't a good idea, but honest, ethical nonmonogamy can work.
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Wed 5 Oct - 16:27
Thank you for your note! My Father is a mystery to me regarding our new relationship. He initiated it, though I was clearly open to the possibility for some time. He prefers me to call him by his name. He accepts it when I call him Dad, but became annoyed, even angry when I called him Daddy! I suspect now that for him, I am just one more young conquest. I know I should cease the intimacy, but it is so powerful and thrilling that I am reluctant to let it go.
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Re: Hello - Introduction

on Wed 5 Oct - 22:32
@FullMarriageEquality

You're right, it can work, I know it can work, but only in theory. Trouble is, people are deeply flawed and imperfect, and they do stupid things when the mood seizes them. For example, I once asked one polyamorist about how he would approach a new romantic interest and how he would handle it in respect to his other partners. His response was, essentially, to bed this new person first to see what they were like and then think about dating them and bring them into his life as new partner afterwards. Would he have told his partners about this new interest before bedding them? No. No, he would not. He said that specifically, after I pressed him for details, and he admitted to this. He told me that if the mood stuck him, and if this new romantic interest came on to him and was receptive to being bedded, he would have taken the opportunity just like that. And the more polyamorious people I talked to, the more I came to realise that this is a theme.

Believe me, I would really, really love to find a polyamorious guy who wouldn't do this to his partners, who would do the right thing and respect those he already had in his life, but I have never found one. Not one. And it wasn't through lack of trying to find one, neither. I went through this debacle of talking about polyamory with polyamorists because I was curious about it and wanted to see if it would be right for me, but after meeting people like the above guy, as well as many others like him, it completely turned me off the idea.

This sort of thing is alright if you are accepting of it, though. And perhaps this guys partners were alright with him bedding people as the mood struck him. But the main, overarching principle of being polyamorious is to ensure that all involved partners know about each other and accept one another and are consulted before bringing someone new into the fold, but no one I have met have lived up to this seemingly simple standard. And these people were not 'bad', neither; they were just deeply flawed and imperfect, and capable of hurting me if I got involved with them. It's not their intention, but it's what happens. I accept that, and I accept that polyamory isn't for me. But there are others who do not know this, who get involved and get hurt, - and get hurt for different reasons than mine, such as jealousy - and that is when I try to explain to them that this is just the way of things in polyamory. I cannot help but want to help them understand it. That they need to accept it for what it is or abandon it.

It's disheartening, but what can we do? There are just some things that some of us are not suited to.  Sad

@Amanda

From the sounds of it, it seems he is ashamed of his role as your father when he is intimate with you, which suggests he is not accepting of this relationship. It is like he wants to strip away the idea that you are his daughter when you are in his bed. That isn't a nice way to be treated. Does your brother treat you this way?

He should think of you and value you for who you are, his daughter as well as perhaps something more, but instead seems to try to perform the mental acrobatics to alleviate his shame of the intimacy you share. As you say, he views you as a conquest; don't you deserve better than that? Does your brother view you like that?

It is up to you as to what you do. But you were upset about his behaviour toward you after that night and I would not wish such to repeat on you. Everyone deserves to be treated decently by their partners, especially from family, and such is a two way street; he needs to treat you well in turn of you treating him well. It's only fair.

I realise this cannot be easy, and that you would be drawn in for more, but you deserve better than to be his quick and convenient lay, don't you? Give it some thought, and do what you feel is right for you.

Hope for the best for you, Amanda. ^_^

ADDED: Apologies, I do not intend to write big posts, but I start with one thing before writing a bit more and a bit more, and I end up discovering I have written an essay. ^_^; What can I say; I am a writer, after all.
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