Share
Go down

Do you want the law changed to make ACI legal in your state?

2 - 14%
12 - 86%
 
Total Votes: 14
Unowen17
Unowen17
Admin
Admin
Posts : 3043
Join date : 2017-12-02
Location : North of Regular, south of Consang

A poll: How at KS want the law changed? - Page 2 Empty Re: A poll: How at KS want the law changed?

on Tue 11 Feb - 8:53
Shasta, I’m not going to ban you, nor even caution you, but I don’t think that calling Abe a bully helps the situation. And I don’t personally happen to think that it is true, either. Abe can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think it’s more true that he has a strong personal vision of immediate political action to legalize consanguinamory or CIAO or whatever in the near-term future. And I believe that he’s feeling quite frustrated that it isn’t happening according to his dream — and that he can’t get others to share his dream.

Abe, sadly, not all of KS is going to march to the tune of your personal vision. Nor mine, for that matter. Nor anyone else’s here. 13 votes is actually pretty good for a poll here. We have a lot of inactive members. I wish all our membership was more active, but we can’t force people to participate. I feel it would help if you were to ask people what they thought the next steps toward legalization should be, listen to them, and acknowledge when they have valid views, rather than to tell them what they ought to think. Collaboration starts not with monologue, but with dialogue.

Now the two of you shake hands and empathize, okay? Smile



That will be two quid for another five minutes. Smile

Best,
UN

_________________
Every now and then, an ally can say a few words, the right words, and change someone’s life for the better.
avatar
AbeSarah
Star Member
Star Member
Posts : 524
Join date : 2016-04-18

A poll: How at KS want the law changed? - Page 2 Empty Re: A poll: How at KS want the law changed?

on Tue 11 Feb - 12:07
Message reputation : 100% (1 vote)
Shasta1234. Hi. I apologize if I have been a bully and a coward. I have been bullied every day now by my spouse for about 37 years and it is probably rubbing off on me. I am getting even grouchier than I used to be, and looking back, I have always been pretty stupid, ill-informed, lazy and more cowardly than many people. Perhaps it is the PTSD, but I am scared to drive these days, I quit a job because of a bully once, and I hate the idea than I am now a bullying people.
But I didn't realize that posting youtube vids was bullying. I thought we were having friendly debates here. I guess some of the rough and tumble between frends might seem harsh to newcomers. You should see some parliamentary debates in Taiwan. The chairs fly but it is all in good fun! People are just expressing themselves.

I wouldn't get any satisfaction if you voted against changing the law. One of my best friends says he doesn't vote in national elections. He says 'They are all useless' and I suppose he is right really on that point. But one good thing about elections is that at least people get to see that other people have different ideas, and they get to put them out there reasonably peacefully, and people aren't just turning to guns and murder to achieve their goals, like in the olden times.

I think I have done quite bit of debating on KS, which involved contributing quite a bit of information that wasn't here previously, but I was not always the first to start shouting and calling people names. Nevertheless, if you think I was arrogant, well I suppose I have to take that on the chin too. One thing about having dementia is that one minute you think you are fine and can remember everything, and then, its all gone, you can't remember the names of you favourite actors, or even well known politicians. You can't feel you are 'a smarty-pants', when you can't remember anything any more.

Have you got any ideas about how to improve things for consang people? Where should be try to go next? Perhaps it is time for this oldie to retire and let the younger generation take over the reins. Cheers!
Unowen17
Unowen17
Admin
Admin
Posts : 3043
Join date : 2017-12-02
Location : North of Regular, south of Consang

A poll: How at KS want the law changed? - Page 2 Empty Re: A poll: How at KS want the law changed?

on Tue 11 Feb - 14:49
AbeSarah wrote:Nevertheless, if you think I was arrogant, well I suppose I have to take that on the chin too. One thing about  having dementia is that one minute you  think you  are fine and can remember everything, and then, its all gone, you can't remember the names of  you favourite actors, or even well known politicians. You can't feel you are 'a  smarty-pants', when you can't remember anything any more.

Abe, I sure hope you're not saying that you have dementia! Surprised

Side note: Our membership includes a fairly large number who signed up months or years ago and never posted an intro. They'll probably never become active and only signed up to see if they could see the members-only forums. They can't. Smile

Best,
UN

_________________
Every now and then, an ally can say a few words, the right words, and change someone’s life for the better.
avatar
AbeSarah
Star Member
Star Member
Posts : 524
Join date : 2016-04-18

A poll: How at KS want the law changed? - Page 2 Empty Re: A poll: How at KS want the law changed?

on Tue 11 Feb - 22:28
Hey UN,

It's a shame that so few KS members actually participate. I don't think I actually told anyone what to think. I think I would be happy if they did think something, but by looking at the poll results, it looks as if most of them don't think or they would have an opinion one way or the other.

Notice we have not seen a hewn cry about the age of consent for homosexual activity being the same as for heteros, or the 'slippery slope' argument being applied (successfully ) there. Some might argue that the promotion of LBGT rights via education campaigns to school aged children at school could be viewed as 'mental grooming' by the state. I wouldn't say that. But extremist homophobes might and it is easy to see that some might construe that a more liberal law could be seen by some mad people as a green like to take advantage of others. But what about a law that lets us all walk into a shop and buy a rifle and amunition. That looks like a slippery slope to mass shootings. But we keep that law or some reason: something about the human right to own guns! (In 2013, there were 73,505 nonfatal firearm injuries (23.2 injuries per 100,000 people),[6][7] and 33,636 deaths due to "injury by firearms" (10.6 deaths per 100,000 people).[8] These deaths included 21,175 suicides,[8] 11,208 homicides,[9] 505 deaths due to accidental or negligent discharge of a firearm, and 281 deaths due to firearms use with "undetermined intent".) Perhaps it is wise not to have an opinion about anything in the USA, for health reasons. You wouldn't want to upset the wrong person.
Gosh I hope I don't have dementia. Its not very nice. Perhaps it is only sleep deprivation from sleep apnoea.
Unowen17
Unowen17
Admin
Admin
Posts : 3043
Join date : 2017-12-02
Location : North of Regular, south of Consang

A poll: How at KS want the law changed? - Page 2 Empty Re: A poll: How at KS want the law changed?

on Wed 12 Feb - 0:30
AbeSarah wrote:It's a shame that so few KS members actually participate. I don't think I actually told anyone what to think. I think I would be  happy if they  did think something, but by looking at the poll results, it looks as if most of them  don't think or they would have an opinion one way or the other.

Yep, it's a shame more don't participate. But some people just read the group and don't say very much. There are all kinds of reasons for that. Personally, I'm going to cut them some slack and not say that they "don't think." Not everyone is political.

Best,
UN

_________________
Every now and then, an ally can say a few words, the right words, and change someone’s life for the better.
Jane Doe
Jane Doe
Admin
Admin
Posts : 2205
Join date : 2016-04-14
Location : UK
https://consanguinamory.wordpress.com

A poll: How at KS want the law changed? - Page 2 Empty Re: A poll: How at KS want the law changed?

on Wed 12 Feb - 1:21
Shasta, no AbeSarah is not a bully, he just hold strong views, which in my book isn't a rule violation. I've spoken to him on wire before, and obviously we've exchanged e-mails, he shares much of my vision, but he goes about things differently than I do on the forum, but that is just personal quirks, nothing is intended against you, if you do not trust him, trust me, I'm a pretty good judge of character.

Now, let's get back to the topic at hand. The slippery slope argument exists, and as Celes has pointed out, there are a LOT of pedophiles out there, in fact, pedos outnumber us. This is a problem, but it does NOT mean that the slippery slope argument is true. People once argued that the legalization of same-sex relationships meant legalizing pedophilia, but that was untrue because the key is the age of consent. If heterosexual activity if prohibited below a certain age, then it followed suit that this same age was also going to be applied to homosexual relationships. Skip foward a generation and we have the EXACT SAME debate with regard to consanguinamory. Same-family relationships will become legal, for people of legal age... it's as simple as that. Pedophilia will remain illegal, and SHOULD ALWAYS remain illegal.

Celes, I understand you've seen a lot of crap on other places, believe me, incestquest, incestboard and actualincest used to be infested with these... creatures. Would you believe I and another person got BANNED from one of these places for raising the alarm about a guy who was molesting his 8 year old daughter, apparently, we were banned for 'disturbing the peace'. We shouldn't have been banned, we should have been given mod powers to clean the place up! I even had some of them saying 'how can you say that, you're with your dad' and I was like 'yes, as an adult woman, not as a little kid'. So trust me, I've seen what you've seen, in another place at another time, but I know what you're talking about. True consangs like us are NOT the minority we seem to be, most of us are in hiding, too afraid to even google it. Trust me we are the majority of consangs. Most adults of any orientation look at a kid and see only a kid, we don't see anything we would want sexually. Like me, I like my men to be MEN thanks very much.

Oh, and while I'm thinking about the gender thing, don't assume all pedos are men, most of them are, but some women too. Around 10% of pedos are female. This was shocking to me when I heard, because women are natural nurturers of children, and surely the mothering instinct would take over... but apparently not. Those women are just as blatant as their male counterparts, and every bit as sick. While they may not physically penetrate their victims, that doesn't mean that they do not cause immense psychological damage.

We as a community need to come out of the closet so to speak, those who are too scared to be on the forum will one day join us, and when they do, we will be the majority of the consang voice. Pedos have been a problem on nearly all incest sites, we have zero tolerance here for a very good reason, we are different from them, and we are seperate from them, and yes, we should be treated differently from them. Nobody who is consenting adults should have to risk prison just because of who they fell in love with. Celes, our cause IS just, and it will NOT result in pedophilia being legitimised, not if I have anything to do with it.
avatar
AbeSarah
Star Member
Star Member
Posts : 524
Join date : 2016-04-18

A poll: How at KS want the law changed? - Page 2 Empty Re: A poll: How at KS want the law changed?

on Wed 12 Feb - 4:01
"Yep, it's a shame more don't participate. But some people just read the group and don't say very much. There are all kinds of reasons for that. Personally, I'm going to cut them some slack and not say that they "don't think." Not everyone is political."

Hi UN, We may never know why so many people abstained from taking the poll. The poll wasn't itself intrinsically political. It could have been about whether people like pineapple on pizza or not:-) The question was about changing the law or not. The legislative branch is separate from the executive branch of government, so question was essentially legislative and juridical. The vast majority of KS that didn't vote might have been telling us they don't think legislative change will change their situation much, as a change in the law doesn't necessarily mean society changes their attitudes and prejudices. But how hard would it have been for one or two to write in and say something that? But as it is, we are constantly in the position of not knowing.
Anyway the poll experiment has given us quite a lot more information than I had before. So now we no know that about 99% of KS don't give a rat's about one of the members who gets arrested and jailed, and possibly don't care or think much about what would happen to themselves or their family either. But I will cut them some slack, and say their attitude is quite normal and usual and nothing to worry about. Perhaps most people are like that. People are probably just trying to get by and enjoy their lives while they still can. Remember Anny Hall where Woody Allen stops a happy couple of lovebirds in the street and asks them a question?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dlypec4dP4

Perhaps many people prefer that things are done via back-door diplomatic channels, with a nod and a wink between politicians and clever lobbyists with deep pockets, so that as little attention is brought upon them as possible. Perhaps they want fewer noisy people on soap boxes making spectacles of themselves. I think I would go along with the majority here. Work smarter not harder. Do nothing. Trust in the tao te Ciao:-) All good things take time.

avatar
AbeSarah
Star Member
Star Member
Posts : 524
Join date : 2016-04-18

A poll: How at KS want the law changed? - Page 2 Empty Re: A poll: How at KS want the law changed?

on Sat 15 Feb - 12:48
I never thought I'd be quoting Stephen Fry. "“Because it's not perfect, let's not bother."
That's crazy! Even if we take three steps forward and two and a half back it's still going half a foot forward.”
― Stephen Fry

Well, we just had a 10 day poll which has ended now. The poll was voluntary and nobody was forced to participate or show ID cards. Nearly all people abstained from voting - for private reasons I guess, but I hesitate to make a diagnosis.
Of the few who voted ( thank you, by the way) the vast majority support legal change.
Of those who voted no change I can understand they might have misgivings about the possible drawbacks and unintended consequences of legal change.
True, some criminals might take advantage of a change in the law. Also, as with agitation for homosexual and other law reforms, the media can be used to stir haters up and draw unwanted intention on people who just want to be left alone. Well, that's the criminal element and the media for you.(They are often the same people these days!) And then there is the 'Chicken-Licken' story that our parents read to us. The one that ends with a fox inviting all the animals back its lair and then eating them all, would seem to likely to make all children very paranoid about joining any sort of group that sets off to tell a king anything at all. Yes it might be better to let innocent CIAO people continue to be sent to jail and have their lives wrecked than waste time striving for legal change and risking those other things happening. Look at when they ended the death penalty, fewer innocent people got hanged but the murder rate did go down for a while but then it went back up again after the US economy tanked after the 1973 Oil Crisis.
As for apathy. :https://www.sparknotes.com/nofear/shakespeare/hamlet/page_140/
the fear of death acan make cowards of us all:
"But that the dread of something after death,
80The undiscovered country from whose bourn
No traveler returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,"
https://www.sparknotes.com/nofear/shakespeare/hamlet/page_140/

"What causes apathy?
First, the emotional fatigue that so often accompanies severe anxiety leads to one's emotions being worn out, thus leading to apathy. Second, the low serotonin levels associated with anxiety often lead to less passion and interest in the activities in one's life which can be seen as apathy."

If you support FullMarriageEquality's Strategic Plan and are interested in changing the law, please PM me. Ciao!
Sponsored content

A poll: How at KS want the law changed? - Page 2 Empty Re: A poll: How at KS want the law changed?

Back to top
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum