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Are you happy with the incest law in your state staying as it is?

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Amico di Amore
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AbeSarah
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incest - Are you happy with the incest law in  your state staying as it is? Empty Are you happy with the incest law in your state staying as it is?

Thu 12 Aug 2021 - 11:42
Since the last KS poll on this subject. the membership has doubled. If you are happy with the incest laws in a particular state staying unchanged, please let us know. If there are many people who feel the same way and want the laws changed there, we can divert our attention away from that state and focus on other states where KS members do want the incest laws to be changed.
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Thu 12 Aug 2021 - 12:02
I absolutely think they should be changed. I’m from California. I feel the only reason there are laws at all is due to the dangers of reproductive problems. While that is a legitimate concern, I don’t think prison time and being placed on the sex offender registry is really the right answer.

The law changing to decriminalize consanguineous relationships would be enough. I’m not even asking for acceptance. Some people will never get over how they feel about that situation, and that’s fine. I do think decriminalization would be great though.

That’s just for me though. If the laws change, I don’t think it will affect my personal situation very much, as neither my sister nor I are going to abandon our families and kids. Lol

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Unowen17
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Thu 12 Aug 2021 - 13:07
Many members are hesitant to say where they’re living, for good reasons.

Stay safe,
UN

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FullMarriageEquality
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incest - Are you happy with the incest law in  your state staying as it is? Empty Re: Are you happy with the incest law in your state staying as it is?

Thu 12 Aug 2021 - 14:40
Every state in the US should have no restrictions on sex or marriage beyond consent (which includes being old enough to). There are a few exceptions that mostly have to do with certain professions, mostly state employees, & people under their charge.

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hiddenromance
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incest - Are you happy with the incest law in  your state staying as it is? Empty Re: Are you happy with the incest law in your state staying as it is?

Wed 5 Jan 2022 - 6:31
Definitely not happy with the laws re: incest as they presently are structured. The sentences involved are way, way too severe. Laws against sexual assault and sex with minors adequately cover "non-consensual" incest. Consensual incest should definitely NOT be a felony or a state jail misdemeanor.

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Wed 5 Jan 2022 - 6:33
Edit to above post: I'm referring to ADULT, CONSENSUAL incest, just to be more precise. No kids, period.

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Unowen17
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Wed 5 Jan 2022 - 11:15
FullMarriageEquality wrote:Every state in the US should have no restrictions on sex or marriage beyond consent (which includes being old enough to). There are a few exceptions that mostly have to do with certain professions, mostly state employees, & people under their charge.

Consent and the ability to meaningfully give or withhold consent. What I call “functional adulthood.” Being able to predict the likely consequences of consenting, and owning those consequences, whatever they are.

It’s tough to codify functional consent as law, so governments just paper it over with the concept of “age of consent,” at which people are presumed to be functionally adults.

Stay safe,
UN

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Thu 23 Jun 2022 - 12:50
Absolutely not, in Italy the law stipulates that relations between relatives are a crime if they cause a public scandal... basically, if someone knows about it, that makes them necessarily secret with all the problems and difficulties of the case, and having had a relationship with my mother for six years now, you can well imagine that this is a tight squeeze for me

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Thu 23 Jun 2022 - 14:21
I agree, Enrico. The Italian law is probably the strangest one I’ve ever seen. It’s written like it was intended to protect some aristocracy.

Stay safe,
UN

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Fri 24 Jun 2022 - 2:07
Not happy with laws in my state, or anywhere in the world, but until things are safer for us, no real way for us to publicly fight it.

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AbeSarah
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incest - Are you happy with the incest law in  your state staying as it is? Empty Re: Are you happy with the incest law in your state staying as it is?

Fri 24 Jun 2022 - 6:24
Since August 2021 nobody on KS said they were happy with the incest laws in a particular state staying unchanged. (By the way, I didn't say people needed to name the state they are living in. I don't live in France, but I can say I think the law that bans CIAO marriage there needs to change).
So unfortunately we can't cross any states off our long list of states where the incest laws need to be changed. The job doesn't get any smaller.
Is it safe to assume that KS members want the incest laws to remain unchanged just because nobody said anything? Or can we assume they (we) all want law reform but we are just too timid and shy to say so, even in this private forum?
The mind control of society (the state) is very powerful? Remember Orwell's 1984...'
"Winston stops reading for a moment. The book fascinates him. "It was the product of a mind similar to his own, but enormously more powerful, more systematic, less fear-ridden. The best books, he perceived, are those that tell you what you know already."

Julia arrives and flings herself into his arms. He tells her that he has the book, but she is not very interested and goes to make coffee. After they have been in bed for half an hour, Winston returns to the subject of the book. He starts reading it to her. She is clearly not paying much attention.

He starts with Chapter One. Throughout history the High group in society has tried to keep its privileged position, while the Middle has periodically overthrown them with the help of the Low, who together believe they are fighting for liberty and justice, only to have the Middle become the new High. The Low group remains downtrodden. The political theory of Socialism, once aiming at creating a utopia based on equality, became increasingly totalitarian, moving away from the goals of liberty and equality. Ingsoc, the Party philosophy, also wanted to switch the Middle group for the High, but the new rulers would then keep their power permanently.

"Even the Catholic Church of the Middle Ages was tolerant by modern standards. Part of the reason for this was that in the past no government had the power to keep its citizens under constant surveillance. The invention of print, however, made it easier to manipulate public opinion, and the film and the radio carried the process further. With the development of television, and the technical advance which made it possible to receive and transmit simultaneously on the same instrument, private life came to an end."

In some ways the Party did carry out the Socialist agenda. Nothing in Oceania is owned individually; everything is owned by the Party, able to dispose of things as they see fit.

Oceanian society is defined by three classes in a pyramid structure, with Big Brother, the face of the Party, at the top. No rebellion is possible. The Party members are completely controlled and the proles are not educated enough to realize that the world could be any different.

The Party members live under the watchful eyes of the Thought Police. Law as we know it does not exist. Arrest or torture by the Thought Police is not punishment for crimes, it is the active removal of people who are suspected of independent thought dangerous to the ideals of The Party. Major mental training is required, starting in childhood, to ensure political orthodoxy. By dislocating the sense of reality, the Party may well be able to hold onto its power forever."

Perhaps we are not ready for a 'Stonewall Riot' just yet, but I heard someone on the radio this morning say, 'Freedom begins with an act of defiance.' Best wishes.
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incest - Are you happy with the incest law in  your state staying as it is? Empty Re: Are you happy with the incest law in your state staying as it is?

Fri 24 Jun 2022 - 14:05
The laws against incest in my state are not only unjust and harmful to consanguinamorous couples, but can be shown to have negative effects elsewhere as well. They NEED to change. I want to be part of that change.

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Amico di Amore
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Mon 4 Jul 2022 - 14:47
DJung wrote:I absolutely think they should be changed. I’m from California...

The law changing to decriminalize consanguineous relationships would be enough. I’m not even asking for acceptance. Some people will never get over how they feel about that situation, and that’s fine. I do think decriminalization would be great though...l
I would agree over all, but if the goal is to prioritize our efforts, I think California would be well down the list. It only bans first degree blood relatives and not cousins or step family. Only intercourse is banned, and the maximum sentence is $10,000 and 3 years in prison, which is incredibly lenient by modern standards.
The law should be changed, but with minimal resources the efforts should be concentrated in more draconian states first.
Preferably a place where the people can be persuaded to ignore consensual relationships. So what places are vulnerable?

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KittyCat
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Tue 5 Jul 2022 - 13:14
Amico di Amore wrote:if the goal is to prioritize our efforts, I think California would be well down the list. It only bans first degree blood relatives and not cousins or step family. Only intercourse is banned, and the maximum sentence is $10,000 and 3 years in prison, which is incredibly lenient by modern standards.
The law should be changed, but with minimal resources the efforts should be concentrated in more draconian states first.
Preferably a place where the people can be persuaded to ignore consensual relationships. So what places are vulnerable?

The other approach is to look for easier targets first. This aids in the normalisation and reinforces that the world doesn't fall apart when people *gasp* LOVE each other.
It ultimately gives you more ammunition to use against those draconian states.

But maybe there are places where it is both draconian AND easy to change? I still think the priority should be progress *wherever* it's realistic to make it.

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Sat 16 Jul 2022 - 17:26
Not (very) socially accepted in Spain, but legally free in all possible cases.

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Sun 17 Jul 2022 - 5:55
It is illegal not to wear a mask on public transport here, but about 50% of people are brash enough to flout the law. I'm too polite to say anything or punch them in face just before I step off the train. What they are doing is not only totally socially unacceptable, but illegal. But I'd be a fascist if I started punching people for doing something I didn't like or thought was social unacceptable. The authorities are not bothering to collect fines from these people either.
Of course, fascists may think and behave differently. Sticklers for the law. (OCD?) I hope the fascists have not returned in Spain and Portugal. I'd like to visit there one day.
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Sun 17 Jul 2022 - 16:00
Absolutely not, apart from being able to marry even having a relationship between consanguinei is complicated in Italy....officially I can, as long as I lock her up within the walls of the house because the crime of incest is only a 'public scandal' even if between adults... the moral of the story is that I am forced to stay at home or pretend

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Sun 17 Jul 2022 - 16:44
In my country it is illegal, you can go to jail and if you have children they take them away from you and you will never be able to see them, besides the legal trial, you would be on the front page of the news and rejected by people including friends and family.

I am absolutely against these laws, why should the state interfere in my bed, why should the state interfere in the decision of two adult couples to live as a couple and form a family?

Many of us hide our relationships or move to far away places where we can live in peace with the person we love.

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charlesfourier
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Wed 31 Aug 2022 - 18:48
I agree with law in my country, France: consensual incest between adults is legal with a age of consent of 18 (15 for other relationships).

Problem is not the law here. That's application of the law: extra legal convictions happen and a few people go to jail for no legal reason, but moral one, the judge in one case said "it may have start before 15", there were no proof of it, every testimonies said it didn't, daugters said they were perfectly consent from the start, there should have been doubt benefit but the dad (and the mom for complicity) still go to jail. That's totally illegal but some judges don't care about laws, they think their moral beliefs are more important (we see this too a lot in America and infortunatly in a system where jurisprudency matter a lot more than in France).

Other problem is social prohibition. You may not be arrest (it can be as i say before) but you will be socially exclude, that's better but not far better. And that's unlikely to change soon: people are really in a witch hunt about subject like that, they can't think rationnaly and that's even more the case those days, with a political power that encourage them, that copy the anti woke crusade from american republicans, who's closer and closer each days to far right (Macron has a good reputation abroad you should know that it is totally undeserved).

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Wed 31 Aug 2022 - 23:26
This question seems to be bringing itself up, in my part of the U.S. as of lately. And not directly from our side. The "drag" shows, that are including children are proving that the gay community is definitely grooming children. They have tried to deny this but it is proving itself. Our refusal to accept this practice is in my estimation, the reason we get no support from the homosexual groups even after we have supported them. I'm hoping this left handedly gets us some reasonable respect and consideration.

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AbeSarah
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Thu 1 Sep 2022 - 11:56
Re CharlesFourier.

If it is possible to find any links to newspaper reports to cases where the judge sent an innocent man or to jail for ACI, it would be helpful. I'd like to start a list of names of such judges that Ciaotannia might place sanctions on. Other countries are placing sanctions on individuals they disapprove of, and publicly name them.

As for bigots, Bigots who are not in positions of power,
"une personne qui est obstinément ou déraisonnablement attachée à une croyance, une opinion ou une faction, en particulier une personne qui a des préjugés ou une antagonisme envers une personne ou des personnes sur la base de leur appartenance à un groupe particulier".

there is not much one can do about them. It is probably easiest to avoid,and or ignore them. Apparently rational debate doesn't work in most cases, but it might be good exercise to practice verbally bombarding them with the facts, (but only if it is safe to do so.)
There might be gentler ways to deal with incestophobes, but the patient generally has to WANT to change:-)


Best wishes
charlesfourier
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Thu 1 Sep 2022 - 13:23
Problem is it led to people being in jail for loving someone they have legally but not socially right to love.

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