hi everyone :)

hi, i am 20 and my brother is 22. we have a very special and very close private relationship. we have struggled to understand the nature of our relationship for many years. since i turned 18, things have gotten easier to be together as a couple, at least in private. we have dated and experienced intimacy with other people. while those experiences have been nice, they do not compare to the bond i have with my brother. i have come to except it and embrace it, but still struggle to understand why we are the way we are; it just seems to have always been that way for us. nothing usual about us or family, just a typical (boring) middle class life. it would be easier to understand if i could point to some traumatic event that might be the source.

Welcome aboard Emily, I've upgraded your account so you can read and post in the hidden sections now. I completely hear you about other relationships not comparing... I experienced same thing with my dad (sadly we're no longer together because of fears that we'd get caught and he never fully accepted this part of his sexuality). I think a lot of people struggle to accept themselves at first because of how society reacts to these relationships, but that reaction is based on misinformation and prejudice. This is the reason I made my website and why I help to run this forum now, to help others to understand and accept themselves, and also to educate people on the subject. I don't think there is any underlying cause of these relationships, other than the absence of the Westermarck effect coupled with mutual attraction. Why the Westermarck effect for non-GSA people we do not know (for GSA people it's absent because it never got chance to develop with them being separated), but it would be interesting to know. In any case, welcome to the forum

Welcome!

Welcome to the forums Emily! I am glad that you have accepted yourself, and hopefully you'll find the inner understanding you search for somewhere here. There's always more to be learned. Hugs for you and yours, and be seeing you around!

The prevalence of forbidden relationships are difficult to gauge precisely because of the secrecy involved.  Each couple feels like they are alone and wonders why they are so different.  You are not alone.  If you attended a high school of any significant size then I can guarantee you that you were not the only brother and sister there who were sleeping together.

You're looking for a traumatic event that would explain your relationship.  Well that presumes that something went wrong and that your relationship is the result.  Your relationship is forbidden to be sure, but that does not mean it indicates that one or both of you are wounded or broken.

You love each other and your love is romantic instead of platonic.  This doesn't mean there is something wrong.

Welcome Emily! Thanks for sharing your story. So happy for you and your brother!

Thanks everyone for your friendly comments and encouragement. I have been looking to talk with like minded people. When I go out for coffee with my female friends we talk about our relationships and occasionally share the intimate details of we enjoy doing privately in the boyfriends, however I can't share my relationship with them, and when I do share I have to speak in very general\vague terms. What is telling is that what they share is very much the same type of experiences my brother and I are having or have had. It makes me feel normal. Its nice to find a place where I feel freer to talk about my relationship with my brother.

Jane Doe wrote:Welcome aboard Emily, I've upgraded your account so you can read and post in the hidden sections now. I completely hear you about other relationships not comparing... I experienced same thing with my dad (sadly we're no longer together because of fears that we'd get caught and he never fully accepted this part of his sexuality). I think a lot of people struggle to accept themselves at first because of how society reacts to these relationships, but that reaction is based on misinformation and prejudice. This is the reason I made my website and why I help to run this forum now, to help others to understand and accept themselves, and also to educate people on the subject. I don't think there is any underlying cause of these relationships, other than the absence of the Westermarck effect coupled with mutual attraction. Why the Westermarck effect for non-GSA people we do not know (for GSA people it's absent because it never got chance to develop with them being separated), but it would be interesting to know. In any case, welcome to the forum

During middle school and high school, a few girls did admit to having some minor exploration with their brother, but most often was described in terms of sex play that is common among kids. I remember a couple of girls saying they let their brother see their boobs or peek underneath their panties. Based on my experience at the time, I sensed there was more to their exploration than they were willing to admit. I really don't know how far they went, so I can't say they had sex with family member. I could understand how they might have liked it (I did), and I could understand why they didn't want provide more details. I suspect there are brother-sisters who experiment as boyfriend-girlfriend, and simply discover through that process that they find others people more desirable. My brother told me that a few guys said they had sex with their step-sister or half-sister, but he is not sure how true the stories were because their stories seemed more like porn videos than anything he and I had ever done together. The stories he relayed to me seemed ridiculous; I enjoyed how it made me feel when I was filled by my brother, but I was not screaming and begging for him to keep going hard & faster like the girls in those crazy stories. Maybe those boys did have sex with a sister, but they felt they need to make up better stories than the one they had experienced.

Emily, I think what you're describing here concerning these descriptions that other lads are giving your brother is pretty much typical of young guys in general, they embellish their sexual exploits to each other to make themselves feel like more of a stud. I'd wager that a lot of them got what they were talking about directly from watching porn. It's pretty immature but typical, and something that these young men will grow out of sooner or later. Porn is deliberately exaggerating for the benefit of the audience, I liken porn stars to actors, which is essentially what they are.

I'd also say that consanguinamory is MUCH more common than most people would be willing to believe. In truth we cannot know for sure exactly how common because of the secrecy that must necessarily be involved, it's still taboo even in places where it isn't illegal. If I were to take an educated guess, I'd wager that consanguinamory is about as common as homosexuality. Everybody knows somebody who is LGBT, therefore it stands to reason that everyone knows somebody who is consanguinamorous, whether they realize it or not.

Jane summed it all up very well!
it feels like it might be even more common than homosexuality, but hard to tell for sure. Perhaps when the curtains are lifted we'll have a better idea!

Jane Doe wrote:Emily, I think what you're describing here concerning these descriptions that other lads are giving your brother is pretty much typical of young guys in general, they embellish their sexual exploits to each other to make themselves feel like more of a stud. I'd wager that a lot of them got what they were talking about directly from watching porn. It's pretty immature but typical, and something that these young men will grow out of sooner or later. Porn is deliberately exaggerating for the benefit of the audience, I liken porn stars to actors, which is essentially what they are.

I'd also say that consanguinamory is MUCH more common than most people would be willing to believe. In truth we cannot know for sure exactly how common because of the secrecy that must necessarily be involved, it's still taboo even in places where it isn't illegal. If I were to take an educated guess, I'd wager that consanguinamory is about as common as homosexuality. Everybody knows somebody who is LGBT, therefore it stands to reason that everyone knows somebody who is consanguinamorous, whether they realize it or not.

I have always kinda wondered how many other people have a intimate relationship a with a family member. I have limited knowledge about what others have done, and even looking online its hard to find information that makes sense to me. Found lots of crazy religious stuff that condemns all kinds of things, including limiting sex between a married man & woman in the missionary position. Kinda hard to understand how people can think that way.

My relationship with my brother has always felt natural to me (and to him too). I give my parents credit for not preventing us from having a close relationship while growing up; they weren't paranoid that we clearly had a strong bond from an early age. They were aware that we chose to sleep in the same bed until I was about 10-11, and enjoyed taking showers together. But as kids, what we did together was not sexually motivated (or extremely little). They did not object that we dressed\undressed in front of each other. It as around 10 when I started having sexual thoughts and feelings towards my brother (and other boys too), and for me it was just a natural progression. I never spent any time thinking about it being moral issue about how I felt about my brother and things we did together privately. It wasn't until I was 13-14 that  I really started to become more aware the strong taboos aspects of our relationship, and began to have internal conflicts between it feeling right for us, but perceived wrong from by society. A few times we did try to abstain, but we never lasted more than couple of weeks. We'd make one exception, that led to another exception, that ultimately led back to having sex most nights before going to sleep (or whenever).  I suppose there are relationships that don't include sex, but for us excluding it has proven to be extremely difficult, and we ultimately accept it and no longer have any moral hesitations.

Emily, what you're describing, the natural progression from being just family to being family plus lovers is something that pretty much everyone here will be able to identify with.

As for the religious people you speak of, every religion has it's nutters and unfortunately one of the first things that the crazies want to see restricted is other peoples sex lives if they find something objectionable. I see it this way: if somebody else wants to restrict their sex life that is their business, but when they try to enforce their world-view on other people, I have a huge problem with that.

Religion is open to interpretation, I had some fun debating one of these crazies:

https://consanguinamory.wordpress.com/religious-bigot-quotes-me-and-calls-our-community-a-threat/

and again here, where he tries to refute my refutation of his original article:

https://consanguinamory.wordpress.com/religious-bigot-quotes-me-round-2/

The problem does not lie with Christianity, but in the interpretation of it. Sadly, so many people get hung up on the most restrictive interpretation of scripture because it gives them some justification for their prejudices, but this is INCORRECT interpretation. Jesus never intended that the Bible be used as a means of denying people equal rights and dignity, and to use it in such a way is terrible.

In any case, it's great that you've found self acceptance, that's half the battle for most of us. Most people are, at least at the outset, intent on trying to 'be normal' and wonder if there is anything wrong with them... but there isn't. It's society's attitude that is the wrong, not our sexuality. People should never feel the need to conform to prescribed 'norms', such attitudes are the enemies of progress and evolution. Diversity is a good thing, we're just a small part of naturally occurring diversity.

You are also quite correct on the difficulties of finding good information about incest, most information is condemning rather than actually exploring the issue sensibly. For instance, there is a lot of sensationalized stories by the gutter press. That sells newspapers (well, what passes for news these days), but it doesn't do the job of educating or informing the public of the issues involved, instead it just triggers them into an unthinking reaction. It's a case of the blind leading the blind.

The lack of information is a serious issue, and is part of the reason I started my website, so I could add to the pool of information that was already there in the form of Full Marriage Equality and The Final Manifesto (those were the two main sites back in January when I started blogging, since then Lilys Gardener has started up and a couple of smaller sites). My knowledge comes for years of talking to others, and from my own experience.

Unfortunately, when anyone types in 'incest' into a search engine, the results they will get will vary from 'incest porn' to articles about childhood sexual abuse, to the gutter press stuff I mentioned above. There is clearly a lot of interest in the subject, but there is a lot of misinformation out there too, so it's good that forums like this exist for the benefit of anyone who does want genuine information and support.

welcome to the forum. you are among friends here. you can find my story in the "my story" section of the site. kind regards.

Welcome to our family
Wiccan

Most of us know what it's likes to be judged for one reason or another, so we learn to be open and understanding. Welcome.

Welcome, Emily - thanks so much for your story.  It's so well told.  I have a friend who is involved with her brother, and it's amazing how similar your struggles are to hers. (Not surprising, of course, but the way they resonate so truly.)  I'm glad you're here.

Just wanted to say - this is such a great response, Jane

Jane Doe wrote:Emily, what you're describing, the natural progression from being just family to being family plus lovers is something that pretty much everyone here will be able to identify with.

As for the religious people you speak of, every religion has it's nutters and unfortunately one of the first things that the crazies want to see restricted is other peoples sex lives if they find something objectionable. I see it this way: if somebody else wants to restrict their sex life that is their business, but when they try to enforce their world-view on other people, I have a huge problem with that.

Religion is open to interpretation, I had some fun debating one of these crazies:

https://consanguinamory.wordpress.com/religious-bigot-quotes-me-and-calls-our-community-a-threat/

and again here, where he tries to refute my refutation of his original article:

https://consanguinamory.wordpress.com/religious-bigot-quotes-me-round-2/

The problem does not lie with Christianity, but in the interpretation of it. Sadly, so many people get hung up on the most restrictive interpretation of scripture because it gives them some justification for their prejudices, but this is INCORRECT interpretation. Jesus never intended that the Bible be used as a means of denying people equal rights and dignity, and to use it in such a way is terrible.

In any case, it's great that you've found self acceptance, that's half the battle for most of us. Most people are, at least at the outset, intent on trying to 'be normal' and wonder if there is anything wrong with them... but there isn't. It's society's attitude that is the wrong, not our sexuality. People should never feel the need to conform to prescribed 'norms', such attitudes are the enemies of progress and evolution. Diversity is a good thing, we're just a small part of naturally occurring diversity.

You are also quite correct on the difficulties of finding good information about incest, most information is condemning rather than actually exploring the issue sensibly. For instance, there is a lot of sensationalized stories by the gutter press. That sells newspapers (well, what passes for news these days), but it doesn't do the job of educating or informing the public of the issues involved, instead it just triggers them into an unthinking reaction. It's a case of the blind leading the blind.

The lack of information is a serious issue, and is part of the reason I started my website, so I could add to the pool of information that was already there in the form of Full Marriage Equality and The Final Manifesto (those were the two main sites back in January when I started blogging, since then Lilys Gardener has started up and a couple of smaller sites). My knowledge comes for years of talking to others, and from my own experience.

Unfortunately, when anyone types in 'incest' into a search engine, the results they will get will vary from 'incest porn' to articles about childhood sexual abuse, to the gutter press stuff I mentioned above. There is clearly a lot of interest in the subject, but there is a lot of misinformation out there too, so it's good that forums like this exist for the benefit of anyone who does want genuine information and support.

Enjoy your relationship with your brother people will always come up with a argument against you based on their belief system don't make their issue's your issue's your young and in love enjoy

Thanks for the support. Even though none of us can meet face to face, it relaxing to be able speak openly about our relationships knowing the paranoia does not exit here.

I want to understand it better. For me and my brother it just feels like its always been there, and when we are physically separated for more than a few days, it there is a build up of the need to be together. Its not just the desire to have sex, but everything else that come with being together, like emotional support and the gaps he fills for me, and I fill for him. I don't mind doing laundry, he hates it. I hate vacuuming, and he does it because he hates laundry....lol.

Your welcome we must support each other because we are all each other have I know we will never meet each other but it would be wonderful to have another couple to double date with One day we will all be able to live out in the open freely I know it

My Sister expressed the same feelings as you exept we live in different states so it's worse. We feel like we are each other we even have the same pet pevs ( example not liking seeing the water pitcher almost empty in the fridge) lol we do almost everything together when we are together cool clean do laundry. You feel incomplete we your not together for extended periods of time and your right it's not about sex its about closeness because you know no one can love you like your sibling